OutlanderBTS Episode 413, The Discussion – Man of Worth

Happy Valentine’s Day!!

I had some technical issues with my laptop, so this one has taken me a while to bring to you, but finally, here it is! I hope you enjoy.

Here is a photo of Diana and her real life Jamie, taken 25 years ago, posted on Twitter yesterday by @PaulamiTweets. They just celebrated their 47th wedding anniversary! Here’s to long lasting love ❤️.

We celebrate another long lasting love in our discussion, below 😊.

We will be going back and doing past episodes from Season 1-4 over Droughtlander, if you have a request for a particular episode, please let me know in the comments. Thanks for reading, listening, and watching! x

36 comments on “OutlanderBTS Episode 413, The Discussion – Man of Worth

  1. Thank you Courtney for the terrific videos of Season 4. I have really enjoyed your interactions and perspectives!

    I so often agree with you but even when I don’t I enjoy hearing your thoughts.

    Episode 413 was a great to good finale I thought. Started great and sort of fell flat at the end. It left not a cliff hanger but some important family relationships unresolved. Particularly with Jamie and Bree.

    The episode really needed another 10-15 minutes.

    I thought the acting in the season was stellar as were the production values. Outlander is among the most outstanding shows in those areas.

    Antoinette my condolences. I missed you in this video.
    Happy Anniversary Carmen!
    Kathryn I hope you feel better soon. I may have spelled all your names incorrectly and if so I apologize.

    I’m looking forward to your video chats for Season 5.

    I would like to hear your thoughts on The Deep Hearts Core. I struggled with that one myself.

    Thanks again!

    • Great to hear from you Ruth Ann! We will do 412 next, and keep working our way through (Antoinette really wants to do 307!) until we get all of Season 4 “discussed,” and some of the earlier seasons tool. I’m so happy you are enjoying the discussions. xo

  2. Just finished watching you. What a delight! You all have such a clear, observant eye and it’s so much fun to hear you! Agree with almost everything (e.g. facial expressions, respect), learnt again a lot. I know I’m repeating myself, sorry…
    The 90 minutes passed so quickly and at the end I thought, “if this was the last discussion, what would one call the waiting until the next one”? Drought-something? Fortunately, you are willing to discuss other episodes, even from other seasons.
    There is quite a lot of negativity on SM at present and I cannot understand the harsh criticism, even if I’m disappointed that some scenes or topics didn’t make it. I’m confident, for instance, that they’ve “saved” the subject of reconciliation between Jamie and Bree for next season because they want to treat it properly, not in a hurry.
    Wasn’t surprised by Murcasta. Love Murtagh and Duncan Lacroix, but not impressed by his body…
    Thank you all! I missed Antoinette but I could also hear her sometimes.

  3. I enjoy your pod casts. You ladies express yourselves so well and are so knowledgeable. I enjoyed this episode but was disappointed that Bree and Jamie did not reconcile. This made me so angry. So angry. It makes me dislike Bree…and I so much want to like her. I am trying. And at the end, I feel they cut out so much but had time for the “cliffhanger”. But the acting was impressive.

  4. Happy Valentine’s Day. Love=condolences, get well wishes and happy anniversary! My Droughtlander has officially begun. I’ve anticipated your latest podcast as the final finale of season 4. I don’t believe you heard me laugh with you, interrupt you or seen me nod my head in agreement as I listened. Courtney if you start with season one, episode 1 discussions I definitely would listen. You ladies are right on the mark. Not only am I in the outlander cult, but I am also part of the Outlander behind the scenes fandom. Here’s to anticipating the dvd release, Go tell the bees publication and premiere of season six!

  5. Thoroughly enjoyed the podcast. I love hearing and reading other people’s views but all in all, I loved Season 4. I can’t imagine what it must be like to write and create a TV series based on a book. Sam, Caitriona were great as usual, as was everybody else. So, please keep the wonderful podcasts coming our way. Love them a lot. Oh, and a Happy Valentine’s Day to you too.

  6. Just would like to say “Happy Anniversary” to Karmen and her husband. It was great to hear that I am not alone when it comes to being a Person who is a little obsessed with Outlander. I have friends and family that kinda roll their eyes at me as well. But I also know some people who can relate to me because they love Outlander as much as I do. I want to talk about Tom Jackson the actor that played the chief in the Mohawk village. He is from Alberta, Canada and he at one time wore his hair long, but as he has aged he wears it short. I am surprised that they didn’t give him a wig to wear. The Mohawk village was amazing, I heard that they took over a whole park to use as the village and they had those canoes made for the show. I agree with you all that Jon Gary Steele needs to be nominated for his work and he should win. I saw a picture on social media showing the inside of one of the long houses and the detail was unbelievable. I really enjoyed this episode the tears in Jamie’s eyes when Ian says he must go and not return and Jamie telling Ian how worthy he was, oh my goodness. The talking between Roger, Jamie and Claire about Bree. The birthing scene ( no medication, no doctor, no hospital) . Murtagh and Jocasta, I loved it. I am so glad they did’t kill off Murtagh I have enjoyed everything about his Character this season. I predicted that the scene of Bree running into Roger’s arms but I thought that they would end it there. I am reawatching season 1. I sometimes wonder what it would be like if they had stayed with process of 16 episodes like the first season. The books are so big it must be hard trying to cover so much in 13 episodes, but I understand the the cast and crew have a life out of Outlander and they need a break. Anyways it was a great season and I am so glad I found you all, I have really enjoyed listening to all your opinions and laughing along with you.

    • I thought I recognized Tom Jackson. He is an amazing actor who has appeared in a TV series (North of 60) and Movies, and as well as being a great actor he is also a wonderful humanitarian. He is the creator of the Huron Christmas carol which he performs at his fund raiser around Christmas time here in Winnipeg for the homeless folks, food banks and others in need. He has a beautiful voice, very rich and deep. It was a thrill to see him in Outlander. I am also a devoted fan of Outlander, both books and the TV show. I knew Season 4 would be amazing and it was. It was great news to know that there will be a Season 5 and 6 – looking forward to both.

  7. So appreciative of all you ladies (and I missed hearing Antoinette’s thoughts as she always brings up a perspective I haven’t considered). Keep it up through Droughtlander as I hope you will do discussions of the other seasons too. Terrific warm and fun discussions from articulate professionals!

    Emily

  8. I want to congratulate all 4 of you on your wonderful discussions of Outlander. You all express so well the feelings that I have of the show and do it with so much thoughtfulness and humor.
    Thank you,Courtney for getting this group together. I look forward to future episodes.

    • Don’t believe they did, as they also haven’t had these discussions for the majority of the episodes… So now greatly anticipating them going back and creating discussions for past episodes, as mentioned by Courtney!

  9. Thank you Courtney, Karmen and Catherine for a lovely Discussion once again. I was hoping for it, then thought you weren’t going to because of technical reasons (a screener or something was needed?) and then suddenly, there it was: your tweet Courtney.
    It’s so lovely to hear your positive notes, in a time where there is so much negativity on social media these days. At the beginning of this season I had to ‘grow into it’ myself, but it’s still my favourite tv show ever. And binging the whole show makes me like it more and more.
    It’s hard to pick my favourite scene of this ep, but I think it’s the one with J&C and Roger. Well done by Rik and Sam ! “That’s the last unanswered blow !”
    Laughed at your remarks about family reactions. I’m trying not to mention Outlander or Sam anymore, because I know it’s getting embarrassing 🙂 .

    Thank you again. I will watch the Facebook live chat as well. Thank you for that too, because I’m not on FB.

    • Hello, Andrea! Mind sharing what the “FB Live Chat” is? I’m assuming for OBTS? I also do not participate in FB, and would’ve just assumed you would have to in order to view something like that. Thank you!

  10. Condolences to Antoinette. I missed your witty and insightful comments.

    Courtney, I look forward to all your podcasts and gatherings of random Outlander internet info. Your site is the best!

    I very much enjoyed Ep. 413–both the work in front of and behind the cameras. I ditto all that has been said about cinematography, costumes, sets, acting, etc. When they had referenced Jamie’s clairvoyant dream about kissing Bree’s birthmark in an earlier episode (forgot which one) I had anticipated their also filming the birth scene. I understand why they didn’t have the time to do that scene justice, but it was a little disappointing. I guess that dream was a little easter egg for book readers–and maybe they will use one of his other dreams later on in the series. Keep up the good work, Ladies.

  11. Hi, Courtney, Just finished watching the discussion on 413. I really enjoyed it and the three of you looked like you were having fun. Glad all three of you liked the episode . I have been reading a lot of negative comments about it especially the fact that they skipped the birthing scene with Claire and Jamie but it seems like you guys found logical explanations for it. I agree that John Bell stole the scenes he was in and that everyone in the cast was very good. Like you three I was very impressed with the Mohawk actors who are Canadian First Nations from Ontario and the Prairie provinces. I have to say Catherine and I share the same taste in men ( we both think that Murtagh/Duncan is very sexy, haha) Thanks again for all the great work you do. Looking forward to more discussions.

  12. Greetings, Courtney! Thanks for another wonderful discussion!

    Antoinette, I absolutely missed your your “voice” in this discussion, and was sad to hear the reason. My condolences. While I typically concur with the other ladies on any number of show notes, your thoughts and tone often mimic my own, unabashedly so!

    Sam is just such a great, subtle actor! He owned S4, and while awards may not be the most important thing, he absolutely should see warranted accolades next year for this season’s work. What he can do with a look, an expression, and not a word spoken is surpassed by no other actor this season.

    Loved the very “Last of the Mohicans” moment (also earlier when they were canoeing down the river with the Mohawk) with Ian’s me-for-him trade, but luckily without the same results as LOTM to come. Watching Ian and Jamie’s exchange was gut-wrenchingly beautiful. The performance between these two, gets my vote as the finest of this episode (okay and also Ian’s reaction to hearing he is now a member of the Mohawk Nation)!

    Except for maybe… Yessss! Murtagh and Jocasta! Oh baby! They can give each other a run for their money in their banter, and then it’s the next morning with Jocasta displaying afterglow, and Murtagh is not quite ready to go down to breakfast. “Come back to bed…” ! Ab-so-lutely! Mr. LaCroix you are one handsome guy, lounging back, shirtless, on a bed looks good on you, and am hopeful for this to be a book change for many seasons to come. In the backstory my mind imagines, I think Jocasta always had a thing for Murtagh back in the days he was wooing her sister Ellen, you know, her “father’s favorite”, but never stood a chance because he loved Ellen. In the S4 E13 Inside the World, Matt Roberts expresses, “This is something we can build on going forward, we have plans!”, and Maril Davis teases, “This is the most important part of the whole episode!”. THIS really makes me happy! I think they may have hinted at some additional changes from the books going forward, through the dialogue between these two, that perhaps Jocasta will be maybe a “double-agent” and secretly aid Murtagh and the Regulators, while maintaining her status as an upstanding citizen in the community? Now that would be fun to watch!

    Glad they didn’t end the season with what Toni Graphia said was her intended cliffhanger of Brianna asking J&C, sans Roger, “Where’s Roger?” and cut to black. With what were the ups and downs of S4, for me, that would’ve been such a low blow. What we are left with is not IF Jamie will kill Murtagh (seriously?), but how he will get away with NOT killing him (perhaps with Jocasta’s help?). This actually was not much of a cliffhanger for me, and felt sort of flat, and almost anticlimactic. Not really a surprise that Tryon would ask this of Jamie (not knowing Jamie’s connection to Murtagh), at least not for me.

    Season 4, my least favorite of all, and leaving me concerned for ensuing seasons… What I am woefully thinking is that the recent show runner(s?) of the tv series are just perhaps finding it more and more difficult to do the books justice with such a very limited screen time allowed each season, and unbeknownst to them (how can that be possible?), or them not willing to acknowledge. Maybe if the books were 400 pages long it would be different, but 800-1000 told in from now on twelve, 1 hour, episodes? Really? Not stating that as fact, only my humble opinion, but I am troubled about what I see happening to the show. As many mention, the writing was inconsistent in S4. With the writer turn-over (and some just plain bad ones), how could it be consistent? A couple of wasted episodes in this last of what I now consider “luxurious” 13-episode seasons! I’ve been encouraged by reading in an interview with Sam Heughan that he and Caitriona Balfe hope to have a greater say in their characters’ development caretaking them!

    And here’s something I learned about myself after Season 4. It used to be so unsettling for me when an episode wasn’t as well written, and didn’t come across with the continuity of other episodes. While that fact is still true, I learned that if an episode completely excluded J&C, it didn’t matter as much if it was well written or not. That episode was unsatisfying, for me, and that felt way, way worse. On both fronts, I absolutely struggled with S4…

    Outlander EP’s have made it perfectly clear that the books are a guideline. No more, no less. That much I’m good with. But then there is no excuse for not keeping J&C at the forefront, regardless of whether or not they were missing in parts of DG’s books (I often skimmed through the endless pages – like you Catherine! – with less or no J&C after a time… Sorry, DG…). They are in large part what sold this series (books and tv), people! It’s why THEY are on the program season artwork. WITH wonderful actors/characters supporting them, not INSTEAD of them. You can not remove them from their own story! TPTB can stop using what is or isn’t in a book as excuses for producing the series they do, because they have stated too often, “We had to make a choice.” Yes, they do, so I am asking them to please make it the right one.

    Outlander = Sassenach = Claire = Jamie and Claire = OUTLANDER!

    I have read the books, although most of them ages ago, and my 65-year-old/chemo-brain memory isn’t always the best. I am not a book purist (hello, Murtagh!). These are my thoughts (not right or wrong, just mine), disappointments and appreciations, and not even remotely an attempt to make me the arbiter to sway others. All in all, while not a book purist, I AM a Jamie and Claire-centric enthusiast, as promised by Ron Moore, NOT on the periphery. The S4 finale was a prime example of what I’m talking about, how it can be done. THAT it can be done. I hope the writers and TPTB have that in mind for upcoming seasons! I continue to be such a devout fan of Outlander, despite what were the personal drawbacks for me in S4, and like all others only wish there was more of it! Never cared enough to voice an opinion on a program before it. I critique because I LOVE!

    Thanks for indulging me, Courtney! And thank you to Karmen, Catherine and Antoinette for participating in these discussions with you. They are the best! You ask which past episodes we might like you to discuss in the future, and to that I say any and all! You ladies make any discussion special, so have at it! They will certainly help with Droughtlander!

    ** One more offering (can you tell I have no one in my world to discuss OUTLANDER with?):
    Just read a great article, A LOVE LETTER TO LOVERS OF OUTLANDER, at lithub.com, that some of you might really enjoy if you haven’t read it already!

    • Oh, my goodness! Thank you, Kimber! What an incredibly articulate response you have written! You’ve covered so many issues that mirror my own, it is good to know there is someone out there in the Outlander universe that is “chomping at the bit” for Season Five to begin as we find ourselves now in the throes of yet another dreaded Droughtlander.

      • Thanks very much, Rosemary! As I don’t have another friend who watches Outlander in real time in my personal life, things tend to get a tad pent-up! And, AGREED, it’s good to find others to commiserate with about that. Appreciate your kindness!

  13. GREAT NEWS, ALL!
    Both Sam Heughan and Caitriona Balfe will be new producers of OUTLANDER, starting with Season 5! Verrra happy to hear this and feel it will only make the show better, with their voices even more prominent.

    “Caitriona Balfe: Ireland’s Secret A-Lister” – irishtimes.com
    “Outlander Season 5: Caitriona Balfe & Sam Heughan gain producer credits”
    claireandjamie.com

    • Doing the “Happy Dance” when I read that Sam and Caitriona will be the new producers. This is the best news ever! Season 5 should be totally awesome.

  14. This is great news and I’m happy for them! But I’m not really surprised. Sam and Cait are the principle players in this incredible Outlander saga, know it by now inside out, so it seems very fitting that they have a hand in production. I’m verra happy too and canna wait.

    • Oh, no, wasn’t surprised one bit. I would imagine this is something both actors have been looking forward to for some time. I congratulate them, and by osmosis US! This is very good news for Outlander going forward, and for those who may pooh-pooh their “say” as “mere” producers, as opposed to that of the EP’s, I would say that is greatly underestimating Sam and Caitriona’s contributions already, and I think their opinions already mattered greatly, and long before becoming producers. It will absolutely not be to the detriment of the show, right?!

      • Sorry for the delayed response, Kimber, busy weekend as it’s been. But I’ll continue. To answer your question, you’re right, absolutely! Another point is that Sam and Caitriona’s portrayals as Jamie and Claire have been so exacting, their effect was global and quite gobsmacking, the whole of which literally soared them to fame. So, bright and perceptive as they are with their roles, they’ll be very fine producers. I recently read (can’t remember from where) that Sam was “hesitant” to say a line from the last episode of Season Three when Claire was swept into the water during that mother of all sea storms and he dove in to save her. Bringing her to the surface, he saw her as nonrespondent. Then, while stroking her hair (and breaking my heart), his next line was, “Damn you, Sassenach, if you die here I’ll kill you.” He wasn’t comfortable with that line but said it anyway, somehow giving it the believability it much needed.

        I must say, Kimber, how lovely it is to converse with you. I think we’ve struck a chord and wish we could do it through regular email. Our delightful exchanges have pulled me from pondering a plotline for my third book, so in sync as we are with this Outlander series. God Bless.

        • Oh, wow! I remember that exact story about Sam not wanting to say that line, and also how he fought against collapsing upon seeing the photos of Brianna when Claire had the plastic baggie of them in the Print Shop episode, and went over to sit on the cot instead…

          You’re a writer?

          • Uh-uh, that long-awaited print shop episode! I assume he relented on the collapse, doing it at first sight of her as she stood in the upper tier. Oh, how long I waited for that episode and prepped for it all day! Actually told my kids NOT to call me at 8:00, when it aired (Michigan time). Which reminds me, where are you located?

            As for being a writer, it feels a bit odd, but I suppose so, what with having a couple of books out on Amazon listings under my pen name. Before that, many short stories on Internet magazines. It’s been a long-time labor of love for me, enjoy the process and have learned so much. I think of you as a writer as well, so beautifully succinct as you are with expression!

          • Rosemary, do you think perhaps there’s a way Courtney might help us connect through email, as you earlier suggested, without posting it here personally?

            Kimber

          • Good for Sam! A man who knows how to stand up for himself. Yes, I also read about Sam’s not wanting to say the line “Damn you, Sassenach, if you die here I’ll kill you”, and also in the print shop scene where he was very adamant about wearing glasses (a very important and authentic thing to do), and sitting on the cot to look at the photos. Loved it!

  15. What a delightful way to spend an hour and a half…Thank you, once again ladies, for such a lovely discussion. A nice distraction from my over extended schedule at present. Loved how Antoinette was with you in spirit if not in person….Many of the not so obvious points discussed were some I noticed as well…
    Hope you had a wonderful date Karmen…your dress and earrings are gorgeous. Love to you all.

  16. Both Sam Heughan and Caitriona Balfe are very intelligent people. Any influence they have on the upcoming Season 5 will be greatly anticipated.

  17. A great idea, if Courtney’s willing. It’s definitely worth a try! We should both contact her now and see where it takes us. Surely she’s had these requests before. I love Outlander BTS, an exquisite blog, and will continue to comment there, but since we’ve met we’ve reached another “plateau” that she’s familiar with and will understand. I’ll give it a shot today. You too.

    • Okay, Rosemary, just contacted Courtney with my (our) request, also! I imagine we should hear back within the next few days. Completely concur, I LOVE OBTS, and will continue to comment here, if I may. I would imagine her connection with the BTS Ladies, is not unlike our own! And thank you, to all others here, for indulging (ignoring) our communications and hopefully this will relieve you of further intrusions!

  18. Me too, Kimber. I’ve just contacted Courtney as well. Her connection with the BTS ladies should be a plus and my fingers are crossed. Like you, I also want to sincerely apologize to all those who engage in OBTS, realizing that the intrusive back-and-forth we find ourselves in has more to do with budding friendship than our collective VERY mutual love of all things Outlander. For now we’ll sit tight and hope for the best, yes?

  19. I’ve seen every cliffhanger of every episode through four seasons now, and this one was over-the-top incredible, considering the scenes involved to bring The Drums of Autumn to a close. How happy I was to see Roger and Brianna finally together, but this Droughtlander leaves us with many questions. What will Jamie do about Governor Tryon’s dictum that he find Murtagh Fitzgibbons and kill him? He won’t, of course, but how will he deal with it? Is Stephen Bonnet alive, and if so, will he finally meet his end by Jamie, Roger, or Murtagh’s hand? And what will become of the new-found love between Murtagh and Jocasta? Oh, such delicious suspense! Loved the ladies’ discussion, but my head is spinning as I wait with anticipation for S5!

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