OutlanderBTS Episode 409, The Discussion – The Birds and the Bees

OK folks, in time for a Thursday night cocktail. Enjoy….



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30 comments on “OutlanderBTS Episode 409, The Discussion – The Birds and the Bees

  1. Unfortunately it says “Video Not Available”. 🙁 I hope you’ll be able to figure out what’s wrong. I was really looking forward to the discussion! <3

    • I had not set it to public when I first published this post, but I quickly changed the setting. It should work fine now. Sorry for the misfire!!

  2. Courtney – thanks so much for these discussions. I now look forward to them almost as much as the show itself. Love the panelists. Happy New Year, everyone!

  3. Thanks for the discussion of this episode. I have watched this episode so many times. I agree with you all the acting was superb, the emotions OMG. Sam hit it out of the park for me so believable for a dad who has never met his daughter only seen pictures and heard stories from Claire. Sophie plays Brianna’s character with brilliance strong, intelligent but their is a caring, loving side to her. She has a temper that comes from both of her parents. I read on social media that Sam and Sophie did not rehearse the meeting scene. So bravo if that was their first time acting that scene WOW! The shock on Claire face when she sees Brianna as well as the emotion of hearing her daughter say she didn’t fight hard enough. Caitriona was brilliant as always. It was interesting how Brianna was okay with her parents touching her but she was pretty skiddish with everyone else. The one scene that sticks out is the scene with Ian on the boat when he apologizes to Briannia reaches out to her and she just jumps. I loved everything with Murtagh, so happy they kept his character. He is such an important character to this family unit. I loved the Bee hunting part, Jamie’s character is so true to himself. When he sent Claire back through the stones and tells her to tell Frank that he is grateful, that continues on in the episode. Here is this dad who has given up so much for for the two women in his life. If was never about him, everything has been for Claire and Brianna. I think that is why we are loving this episode so much. He is finally being rewarded for all his trials. Finally I just want to mention the beating that Jamie laid on Roger, holy cow I made a comment on twitter saying is this poor guy ever going to look the same. That was really hard to watch. Anyways, I really enjoy listening to you all, lots of interesting thoughts and lots of laughs, Happy New Year!

  4. I was so looking forward to this discussion as I too thought it was one of the best episodes ever! You gals touched on almost everything I noticed except when Claire found the ring and brought it to Brianna, I felt Brianna was excellent in being forceful with her mother, explaining it in such detail and then insisting that she cannot tell Jamie and sticking to her guns about it to protect all of them from future heartache if Jamie was to find out and go after Bonnet. I just loved when Jamie and Brianna finally met and I agree that Sam was really able to show his acting chops in this episode in so many levels. The whole thing was superbly written and acted and I just hope they continue on in this vein. I loved all the times Jamie looked at Brianna trying to soak her up without making her feel uncomfortable and the giddiness he felt when she called him Da and how he told Claire about it. Also, nobody mentioned that when Claire told Jamie she had something to tell him, he immediately went to “oh she’s going to leave us”. That is perfect, as we all would go there first in our minds with someone who just came into your life. I’m really tired of Sam not getting any accolades for his acting abilities and hopefully that will change soon. I just loved it when Claire sees Brianna sitting next to Jamie on that bench for the first time. You could see it in her face, the way her eyes adjusted and then the realization that her daughter was in their time and was right in front of her. Their embrace was all encompassing emotionally. And I too thought Jamie was going to kill poor Roger and he looked just awful when he was thrown over the horse. Unfortunately, he’s going to suffer a lot longer before he finds his way back to Brianna. But perfect is how I would rate this episode despite the wrong kind of bees! If you ever want another person to be in the discussion, I would love to join you, but I’m sure I would just have to get in line. Thank you all for these great discussion by women who are so diverse and knowledgeable in so many areas!

  5. Fantastic analysis ladies! First one I have watched from you all.
    Karmen commented about Claire and Jamie switching roles regarding telling Bree it wasn’t her fault about the rape and not fighting enough.
    I am led to believe that the scene where Jamie demonstrates physically that Bree could not have fought Bonnet off is still to come and will be aired in the next episode. I’m sure it was shot, I just hope it will be shown and not cut because hearing the words are not as powerful as experiencing it. I think it is a vital scene for Bree to move forward and begin to heal (enough) from the rape before Roger’s return.
    Anyhow, just wanted to add my two cents worth!
    Keep up the wonderful insights.

  6. This was the first time I’ve watched a discussion…….what a wonderful group of ladies!!! Really gave me a lot to think about.
    I will rewatch 409 again very soon.

    I will go back and watch the other discussion posts too……

    Thanks for sharing !

  7. I am loving listening to these discussions, you ladies give such great analysis of the episodes. I also appreciate that I am learning something with every discussion. Thank you all for your wonderful words and thoughts.

  8. Thank you ladies again, for a great discussion (including the extra BTS behind the BTS 🙂 ) Again, there’s not much I disagree with. All the acting was superb, but Sam … wow!

    I hadn’t realized that the ‘I should have fought harder’ scene was a replacement for the one with Jamie, until you mentioned it. But fortunately, Penny left a comment that that scene may still come, fingers crossed.
    I liked that, like me, you accepted Lizzie being so tall pretty quick. The casting in general is so great! And good observation about the malaria remark. They suddenly put it in, after I already thought multiple times that they must have chosen to leave it out of the story.
    I liked the information about Diana’s struggle with Bree’s character. I hadn’t read that before (and I read a lot of Outlander). I have no problem with her character like some people do. The only ‘thing’ that has always annoyed me was that, in the Fiery Cross *tiny spoiler*, there was a lot of Bree breastfeeding :-).
    And poor Roger indeed! That’s one of the reasons why I would have loved to have you discuss #408 as well, because of some of the reactions that Richard got. Too harsh, I thought. Like with all the characters (even Claire 😉 ), I can’t imagine any other actor playing Roger and I think he’s doing great.

    There ‘s one last thing I’d like to say to people that love Jamie as a father: if you haven’t already (and love to read of course), you really should read Lord John and the Scottisch Prisoner. I ‘ve read it for the second time and my heart really melted (again).

  9. Lovely to see/hear you ladies again. What a spectacular episode! It was everything we LOVE about outlander. it is definitely apparent who the writers were…wish Matt and Toni could write them all. Everything about this episode worked (except the weird line about Lizzie shouldn’t run…it’s not ladylike….really? out of Bree ??who probably ran, from time to time, her whole life). Everything from the costumes, sets, acting, all of it…just made me smile. Best episode of this season so far after a bumpy beginning. Til next time ladies….be well and have a fantastic New Year!

  10. A possible upcoming scene with Jamie physically showing Bree how she could not have fought back against Bonnett
    makes me more than a little concerned how that will appear. I know that it’s in the book, but just because it is, doesn’t
    mean that Show Jamie would actually do this. I don’t mean to prejudge it, but I can’t picture it happening except very quickly and with Bree understanding immediately what’s going on. Otherwise, Jamie could appear to be acting irrationally and in a frightening way to Bree. Not what I want to see. I have a hard time seeing Jamie taunting her into an argument on purpose. But if all he does
    is then hold her gently back for a few seconds, it might work. Still, I’m apprehensive. Even if they’ve filmed it, I hope they decided not to use it.

  11. On another note, I loved this episode and thanks to all for a wonderful discussion.

    Sam Heughan was incredible in the scene with Sophie Skelton. It makes it even more wonderful that they didn’t rehearse it.
    In a scene like this, perhaps it’s best to go at it fresh.

  12. I love these discussions. I agree with so much that was said. Always great to get the different takes and also the knowledge that everyone brings is an added bonus.
    My thought, while watching the show as Bree struggled to remember Marsali’s name, was that is was a bit of an inside joke. Back for Season 3, there was a conversation on Twitter about how to pronounce the name and one fan came up with someone chopping parsley and Matt loved it.
    Thanks again Courtney for putting these together.

  13. Oh. My. God! I have finally found you! And by that, I mean a discussion between women I can relate to, who also happen to love OUTLANDER! I watch the amazing series, and typically, after Season 1, read the book of the upcoming season just prior to the airing. I’m not someone who is so married to the books that I don’t appreciate the challenge of turning them into a limited series, and often think the changes made are interesting and wonderful! As a 65 yr. old woman who does not participate in social media, and who does all my online activity on a Kindle Fire, it is challenging to say the least. I also have no family, much less friends who watch the show in real time to commiserate with.
    🙁 It’s exasperating! Just loved your conversation and only disappointed that I see you don’t do this for every episode. Nonetheless, I’ll look forward to the next time you do. Thank you!

      • Just curious, if you don’t mind, did you meet Karmen first (maybe at an Outlander event), and how did you come together as a group? Don’t see that background anywhere, and my curiosity is piqued! “Women have a highly journalistic need for having all the facts.” Looking forward to #411, and thank you!

  14. Thank you ladies for a fabulous discussion, thoroughly enjoyed it. What I love about seeing your panel discussions are the different points of view and specialties you all have. It gives these discussions a richness I do not find in others. I love hearing about the medical accuracies, they call my attention to areas I am not familiar with, and provide additional proof of the level of excellence achieved by the writers, producers, etc in the authenticity of the show. Not having read the books, yet, I also very much appreciate hearing about the differences between the two.
    As far as my opinion about this episode…there are no words to truly express my joy… except I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED it! It would take entirely too long to list all of the wonderful gems included throughout this fantastic episode, and most have already been mentioned, so I won’t comment on them. But I will say that I too am thrilled that the script allowed for all of the actors to shine, but in particular Sam (and what an outstanding job he did!), which has happened too infrequently for my taste, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that this trend continues. I do wish Ron Moore would have been as involved in these last two seasons as he was in the first 2 though. I also wish Ira Behr were still part of the writing team. Their absence, in my opinion, is quite palpable (this episode being the exception), and I worry about how seasons 5 and 6 will be handled. Well, that is out of my hands, all I know is that I will never stop watching this series! (and rewatching, over and over again). Thanks again Ladies! All the best to you in 2019!!!

    • Patricia,
      I ABSOLUTELY agree with you regarding Ron Moore and Ira Behr. Their early on participation is sorely missed, and that loss is palpable. And with regards to these ladies, and their discussion, well I can’t tell you how delighted I am to have found them! Aren’t they great? As a 65 yr old woman, who also has never followed and loved a tv show like this before, I enjoyed their conversation immensely. Hope they are back regularly now that I have!

      • Thank you Kimber! We will do it as often as we’re able. You can watch our discussions about Eps 402, 406 and 407 now, just go to the Homepage and scroll down! Thanks for your kind words, we’re glad you found us too! We will discuss Episode 411 next week, stay tuned!

        • Oh, trust me, I found and watched the other episodes you discussed after watching this one. Made for a most excellent afternoon! Thanks, again!

    • Thank you so much Patricia, and thank you for being a Patron! I appreciate YOU! I’m very happy you are enjoying our chats. To be honest, I think the writing has been the most inconsistent element of the show, starting in S3. The sets are always fabulous, the costumes too, the casting is spot on, the acting is great. the cinematography and music, etc. etc. But, without good writing, these other things take a back seat. I also miss the original writing team, including Ron, Ira, Toni, Matt and Anne. I hope they have less writer turnover for Season 5, and that they find their flow. It’s a tough one! Best wishes for your 2019 too Pat! xo

      • Oh, Courtney, I HAVE found the right website! As I have said to others, my frustration since Season 1 (and, sorry Starz, but that original Outlander “voice” set the bar, and made me subscribe to your network for the first time ever) is that the subsequent seasons have writing that is uneven, from writer to writer. I’m not married to the books, so it doesn’t have to necessarily follow them to a “T”, but just show continuity with the characters. As a matter of fact, I typically really enjoy the series story changes, so that has never been my issue. I get to be surprised as well! The casting, and acting on this show are brilliant! Bottom line for me has been, and will continue to be, dodgy writing/editing. BTW, this IS Sam Heughan’s year!

  15. Hi Courtney,
    Just finished listening to the discussion for ep. 409. The four of you are so intelligent and articulate. I am always impressed at your understanding of all aspects of the episodes. Thx again for doing those discussions. I know it is a lot of work.

    • Hi Diane, It is a lot of work, but I enjoy these ladies, and I enjoy doing the work! As long as our schedules align, I think we’ll do it. We have also talked about going back and doing older eps during Droughtlander, could be fun…. Thank you for your acknowledgement and nice comment. I appreciate both! x

      • Yes! Please do this! It would be so fun to hear about what you all initially thought about the older episodes and then what you think about them now as you look back over the whole show. Keep up the excellent work!

  16. Ditto re D. Dumas comment. Love these articulate intelligent ladies to whom I relate. Insightful and delightful observations and analysis. Totally great episode and commentary. Thank you Courtney for bringing them to us.

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