OutlanderBTS The Discussion, Episode 605 ~ Give Me Liberty

13 comments on “OutlanderBTS The Discussion, Episode 605 ~ Give Me Liberty”

1. Courtney,

   I think you ladies are amazing, and I enjoy your episode discussions very much. I have been re-reading Echo in the Bone, and I am wondering why Ian calls William “cousin” when Ian finds William in the Great Dismal Swamp. Does Ian suspect William’s parentage? Any why would Willian not ask him why he called him cousin, and I know that they had met many years before when William and LJG visited the Ridge after Isobel’s death. I got the references to William’s red beard, and then when Ian gives him the bear claw, I kind of think Ian knows that he is Jamie’s son. I did not think I remembered the subject being raised with any family members after that visit.

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   • Thank you Alison! I think he looks so much like Jamie that Ian just knows.

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   • Ian knows who William is. He recognized William immediately after he fell into and stormed out of the privy he fell into at Fraser’s Ridge when he and LJG visited the Ridge when William was twelve or so. (Not in the TV version)

     While Jamie and LJG laugh like loons, shit-coverd William blows a Fraser gasket which Ian immediately recognizes–along with his blue eyes. During that interlude Ian and Claire exchange glances which confirm William’s identity to Ian but no one else says anything about it.

     The “cousin” address in the Dismal is part of a ruse that helps to save William’s life because Ian claims him as kinsman. However, while Ian knows it, at this point William does not.

     During that time in the Dismal the indigenous people with Ian have him choose a strong totem animal. He chooses a bear and they then name William as “Bear Cub.” Not long after that Ian (without Jamie’s knowledge) gives William the necklace Jamie was given by the tribe which named him “Bear Killer.” Later Ian tells Jamie about it–but I forget when. It might not be in the same book but a later one.

     Diana weaves complex, intertwined narratives.

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     • Yes Lynda – all true – thank you!

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     • It was in Bees (ch 28) that Ian told Jamie that he gave William the bear claw. When they were about to go out and hunt the killer bear.

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       • Thanks!

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2. Are you ladies considering going back and talking about seasons 1-3?? That works be a great way to get us ALL through droughtlander .. pretty please ??

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   • We have talked about it. We’ll get Season 4 done and then see.

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3. Once again you lassies dinnae miss anything……..but I’ve ain for ye. Aha!
   Now, ah ken if yer nae a Scot you’d have missed this but when Jamie meets Flora and they talk aboot the bridie etc Jamie says about meeting when they were ‘weans’. Apart fae him pronouncing it totally wrang ( and Sam should hae kent better) The Scots wird ‘wean’ meaning a child and pronounced ‘wayne’ is only ever used by Glaswegians and the fowk fae the surrounding area. I think it’s actually a Scots/Ulster wird for a ken the use it in Northern Ireland. But it’s a West Coast central belt wird. Diana uses it frequently in the books but she didnae dae her homework. As a Glaswegian living in the North East o Scotland and wirkin 40 years as a teacher I always cried the pupils ‘the weans’ which was always picked up by my colleagues. Now nae Gaelic speaker or even a Hielan Scot ever cried a bairn or child a ‘wean’. It never happened in the 18C and it disnae happen now. Ah might be a wee wean greetin ower this ower sight but there ye go. Something you lassies missed Great discussion as usual.

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   • Thank you Ann! For the Scots and the info!

     The first time I ever went to Scotland, I met a woman who told me that she loved the books but that that very same thing bothered her. That they only would have used the word “bairns,” not weans in the Highlands. So, thank you for refreshing my memory on that. I’ll call Jamie’s ass right out on that one next time! 😁😉

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4. I have been a fan of books and series since the beginning. Always watch your shows. Love your gals. I am an old gal, but still pretty perky! I have read the books more times then I like to admit!! Of course, I am a huge fan of Sam and Cait! Live in Fresno, CA. My neighbor (friend) lived across the street from Ron D Moore when he was a kid!!

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5. Hello Courtney,
   As always, The BTS discussion is the best way to complete viewing an Outlander episode. This episode, as well as all of Season 6, was so very good. Should have posted sooner, but I wanted to check some of my info. And then …. Well, and then…

   I wanted to add a little something to the conversation about the “Join or Die,” flag. Karmen explained how the colonies were represented on the different segments of the serpent. The drawing (possibly the first political cartoon in the colonies) was used by Benjamin Franklin to illustrate the challenges that the British army and the separate colonial militias were facing as they engaged with a much more unified French army backed up by their Native American Allies. They were fighting over settling the Ohio River Valley. Franklin’s goal was to illustrate how a united military force would have the power of a fierce, intact serpent. In the US History books this war against the French in 1754 is called the French and Indian War. It formed the young colonial soldier, George Washington. It is also referred to as the 7 Years War in British references, because it was a broader continental conflict. One reason the British brought the fighting to the colonial territories with the hope that the large colonial population would help them defeat the French and get them forever out of their way in North America.

   Franklin’s idea of uniting colonial militias was considered, but it was dismissed.

   But that notion of unification was tossed into the colonial universe. The war ended in 1763 and in 1773, the tea was thrown into Boston Harbor. The segmented serpent now had a different reception. That TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION was levied by the British Parliament, only on the colonies, and specifically to pay for the French and Indian War, and to maintain and govern all the territory gained from France.

   Long-winded. So sorry! History nerds make really loyal Outlander fans. 😃 Thanks for reading.

   Here is a link with more information about the symbol, if you’d like further info on the flag.
   https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-story-behind-the-join-or-die-snake-cartoon

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   • A great synopsis, Anne Marie. I used to teach this material minus the Join or Die flag part in Grade 9 Social Studies but from the Canadian perspective. Franklin also wanted to reclaim the territories lost in the French and Indian/Seven Years War not yet officially known as Canada, but then called British North America.

     I wish I still had the direct quote from his writings, but Franklin’s vision of North America proposed the eradication of the indigenous peoples in a new nation across a continent that was Protestant and white. As we know, it (thankfully) didn’t work out that way. Not that it has worked out remarkably well for either indigenous or enslaved peoples since.

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